[00:00:05] Melissa Traverse: Hello, and thank you for joining. I am Melissa Traverse, Director of Community here at BevNET Anosh, and I am excited to welcome you to the NonBase podcast. Be sure to visit nonbase.com. It's BevNET's platform built for the CPG community. It's where you can find episodes of this podcast, our new CPG education learning platform, and so much more. For many U.S. brands, the U.K. is the most logical first step beyond the domestic market, a gateway to broader international growth. And even if you're not currently planning to expand internationally, understanding how the U.K. market works is fascinating because it often challenges assumptions U.S. founders make about growth, consumers, and retail. Today, we are going to find out what it really takes to bring a U.S. brand into the U.K. the right way. My guest is Ruth Fittock, co-founder of Tomorrow Brands, a U.K.-based business that helps U.S. challenger brands expand across the Atlantic. Ruth has led some of the most recognizable U.S. brand launches in the U.K., including Vitamin Water and Popchips, where she spent eight years building the business and has also worked with brands like Harmless Harvest, Driscolls, and Bragg. After years across both large brands and startups, she and her partner help founders understand when the U.K. makes sense, where the opportunity truly is, and how to build a smart, long-term expansion plan. Ruth, it is so great to have you here.
[00:01:38] Ruth Fittock: Hi, Melissa, thanks so much for having me today. I'm so glad to be here. Yes, I've worked in CPG in the UK for coming up to 20 years now in brand and marketing, specializing in challenger brands and better for you brands. So as you mentioned, I worked on the launch of Vitamin Water here, where I met my now business partner, Philippa. And it was Philippa who actually was CMO at Harmless Harvest. And then I went over to Popchips and I was there for eight years from launch through to acquisition. And I've worked on various fast accelerating UK brands. Phil, my partner was at Coke for many years and then went on to also work for some fast accelerating brands. So for us, it was a real kind of passion area and we really loved the kind of innovation and the energy coming out of CPG in the US. and saw a bit of a gap in the market which is where Tomorrow Brands came from. So we started the business around two years ago and really the vision we knew that for a lot of US brands there'd be a union jack somewhere in a five-year plan on a deck but no one would ever know how to get that from a slide into something more tangible and that's where we come in. So we help brands with everything from kind of initial market scoping all the way through to getting you into market and you know, the messy middle in between those two things.
[00:03:03] Melissa Traverse: So why don't you tell us a little bit about the UK market itself and why it's desirable? I think here in the United States, sometimes we can have a singular focus and not always look outside the, you know, our borders to see what might be next. But certainly there is a wealth of opportunity, both in understanding how other markets work and also planning, even if it's in the long term, to expand globally. So tell us a little bit about the UK market and really why is it desirable?
[00:03:37] Ruth Fittock: Yeah, I think there's a misconception that the UK is tiny and it is small compared to the US, definitely in terms of geography, but that actually is of a benefit. So I think for a lot of US brands, it's a relief when you look at distribution costs and cogs and delivery, and especially for DTC brands, like suddenly everything's a lot easier. It's a lot more centralized. You know, we only have, a handful of major retailers. So it's easier in that respect. But it's not small in terms of economic opportunities. So I think in terms of scale, you can look at the UK as you would California and New York so you know if you think of London as as in terms of one of those markets which for any brand would be you know a big enough size of prize to be interesting it can be rewarding in that regard but it also is a good first launch pad if you do want to go global, if you do want to go into the rest of Europe. And I would also say probably another misconception is that Europe is the kind of one thing and then you just launch in Europe. And the reality is It is many different countries, very different in terms of attitudes to food and drink and health and wellness. I think that the U.S. and the U.K. are more similar in some ways, and even the U.K. and France are, from experience of trying to launch Popchips in France, I can tell you that's true. There are some with different cultures, we are different, obviously speak the same language, which is very helpful for launching a brand, but attitudinally, there are enough similarities UK consumers. are happy to pay more for premium brands. They're interested in trying new things. You know, it's a exciting market to launch. And if you compare that with Germany, which is bigger on paper, but very value-driven, you know, it's very own label driven. It's where Aldi and Lidl are from. So if you want to look at, you know, start thinking globally, the UK is the perfect place to start. It's, you know, language, it's attitudes, and it is big enough in terms of opportunity that it's compelling.
[00:05:59] Melissa Traverse: Well, that certainly confirms a number of assumptions that, you know, I would have about the similarities between the United States and the UK. You know, you've you've talked a little bit as we've been leading up to this podcast about the Popchips launch. And I think it's such a great study for folks to understand this topic a little bit more in depth. Can you can you bring us into what that looked like? Why they decided to launch into the UK? How it went? You know, why didn't it work in France? What was that whole process like?
[00:06:34] Ruth Fittock: When pop chips launched in the UK, they were the fastest growing snack brand in America. So they had great traction and momentum in the US. And I think they were just starting to look for overseas opportunities and the UK is probably still the second highest per capita consumption of chips outside of the US, so big salty snack eaters. Countries like France, very different, have no on the go market, so to speak of versus here. So again, that kind of attitudinal, cultural occasion based was a perfect fit. When they made the decision to launch in the UK, um, they kind of went all in, you know, built the team, found the co-man. It wasn't a dip your toe in, test and learn. It was a, we're going to do this properly. So we launched in Waitrose on day one. Waitrose is a premium retailer here. I mean, I'd probably equate it with. Trader Joe's, maybe. Maybe that's a good one. But, you know, it's not all ownable in the same way. So high-end, affluent consumer, based in the southeast of the UK, so very London-focused. And then we also went into Whole Foods, QSR accounts, London Independence, and then built the brand from there very gradually over the years. So it was in the UK for eight years until it was acquired. We grew year on year. We paced it well, we didn't go straight into Tesco, which would be another key learning. It was a patient but accelerated launch. And I'd say it was a kind of UK challenger brand dream in terms of distribution gains and what happened when. And we were able to kind of secure that because of the momentum from the US and because we have proof of concept and because we had some you know backing at the time so we could do outdoor campaigns to support that, and we also work in Katy Perry, which was helpful, so you have a kind of globally recognized celebrity. That helps, it helps in retailer conversations, it helps the consumers. So we had a lot of momentum behind us, which meant that UK retailers were very happy to give us a chance. And then because of the timing, I think better for you and wellness and health was just a growing trend at that time. When Popchips came out here, there really wasn't anything in that space. It was very diet, very kind of sad. And so to have a brand that was better for you but you didn't feel embarrassed eating was really new at the time and obviously now everything is gone completely the other way and it's sort of the opposite. But then that was that was genuinely innovative and there was a genuine gap in the market and pop chips really built out a new category here of that better for you. So I think right time, great momentum behind it, and then a patient but accelerated distribution strategy supported with proper brand and marketing investment.
[00:09:40] Melissa Traverse: Something else you brought up that I also think is really interesting is what diet culture looked like when Popchips was launched in the UK versus the United States. And I'm curious, what does that look like in the UK right now? I feel like in the United States, everyone's obsessed with protein. Fiber is hot on the heels of protein and it almost seems like consumers here are more focused on macros and singular ingredients and singular macros versus where we were previous, which was, you know, whether it was keto or paleo or Whole30, it feels like we've moved in that direction. What are consumers in the UK looking for right now?
[00:10:26] Ruth Fittock: Well, I think the first thing to say is that the UK often follows US trends. So when you see things, not always, not everything kind of comes across, but protein, fiber, you know, those, those have been trends here as well. And, and UK brands, and I think UK retailers look to the US to see what's going on. So. whether that then becomes a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy when, you know, they're kind of making that happen because they think it's going to happen. So it's often similar. I'd say the big difference is UK consumers are more about balance and a bit more moderate and are kind of looking for products that are going to make their eating healthier a bit easier. So something kind of left of the middle versus, you know, the extremities of health and wellness is going to do really well. I actually think that's probably the same in the US, right? Is that that's what everybody wants to kind of those brands are going to make easy, easy changes for them. I'd say that it's the the other big difference is more moderate consumers but also less um a bit more pragmatic and less a bit more cynical i guess is the right word so we have a very strict uh guidelines on what you can and can't say very strict um that would be one of the key things to be aware of if you're looking at this market and we can get into that but i think as a result uk consumers are quite savvy they don't like being over marketed to they don't really believe in over claims so they're kind of they're a bit tougher a bit less forgiving i'd say so when it comes to health and wellness anything kind of the edges, the peripheral is gonna have a more of a niche audience. So the mainstream sort of health and wellness consumer here, there are more of them actually from other brands I've worked somewhere we've done audience segmentations. They're a bit more about balance. So it's kind of a bit more moderate, a bit more about balance, but it's a big proportion of the UK population. So if you are a better for you brand, this is a great market.
[00:12:44] Melissa Traverse: I'm wondering if the 30 grams of protein beverage that I saw in our cooler just recently would perhaps not make it across the pond.
[00:12:52] Ruth Fittock: Protein is really interesting because it's still it is everything here now also has a protein call out on it and I think it is still quite in that um sports nutrition space so i definitely think there's an opportunity for a more um you know whether it be more female targeted or like less sort of sporty you know you see those aggressive protein brands where it's like everything sort of black and gold. So I think there is opportunity. 30 grams might be a bit punchy. It might be. Does it taste good? Does it taste good? Because that's the other thing. It has to taste good.
[00:13:32] Melissa Traverse: It still might be a bit punchy for the United States as well. So when you were walking us through the Popchips launch, you pointed out that they were ready, they did it slowly and methodically. What are some of the signals that you look for when you're working with your clients to understand whether or not that they are truly ready to take on a launch in the UK?
[00:13:56] Ruth Fittock: I think looking at the category and seeing if there's genuine white space, the same is true to launch anywhere. I think because of what we said a moment ago about retailers and brands looking to the US, If you see a kind of flurry of copycats of your brand, that's a good sign because it shows that the signals are there. What often will happen is that the category will start, a new category, a subcategory will start to emerge. There'll be a flurry of smaller brands who are kind of inspired, shall we say, by something they've seen in the US. So there's growing, but there's no market leader. There's no brand leading that. And we think then that that's a great opportunity for that market leader to come over and, you know, take the space. I think you have to get the timing right, so you want to get in there while it's accelerating rather than owned, and there's still opportunity there. I think when you see retailers start to believe in those categories, so a great example would be functional sodas. definitely an area I think where there's been a lot of inspiration taken from the US and retailers are starting to build out functional soda bays, shows that buyers are open and that's a great opportunity. And then I'd say when a product is hard to replicate or it's genuinely really innovative, so if your product is truly differentiated, Um, that's really exciting and it's going to be far more defensible. So, you know, when Vitamin Water, I know it's funny, we try and say it in American accent sounds so much better when you say it, I'm not going to, I'm not going to attempt it, but that, when that launched it, that was the first functional beverage. I mean, we think they should bring it back because it was, it was genuinely really innovative versus, you know, when liquid death launched air, which didn't go so well, that was water in a can. Like we have that and. The market here is very dominated by like French provenance legacy brands. It's going to be much tougher. Um, and then the final thing I'd say is overlap with UK trends. So, you know, you just mentioned protein and fiber. Those are pertinent trends here. Um, but if you can kind of time it right, like pop chips did where you're at the beginning of a wave of something big, you know, it could be like non-alk here is booming. We've, we've, we've got some great homegrown brands, so it's probably, um, it would be competitive, but maybe something like nutrient dense foods, you know, like convenience, but quality clean label, you know, there's all the chats about GLP ones, again, we're further behind, but if you can get in at the beginning of a wave of something, then it's going to give your launch like rocket fuel.
[00:16:48] Melissa Traverse: I think it's so interesting that Liquid Death did not do well in the UK. And you mentioned that's because there are many challenger brands that have more of a legacy status. And even here in the United States, when they first launched, I think a lot of folks, including some folks here at BevNET, thought it was really more of a marketing play than a serious beverage play. Can you talk a little bit about why Liquid Death didn't work? Is it just because there were so many other canned waters that folks loved? Was there anything else?
[00:17:20] Ruth Fittock: I think they did a great job in other ways. I think they built some really fast traction and got some great brand awareness early on. I think it's a really challenging category. Like I said, it's really hard to differentiate yourselves when it's water. I think the kind of tall boy format is just not something we have here. It didn't really resonate with consumers in the same way. They didn't really get it. And I think they went very Brad Avery quickly. So they went into mainstream distribution really early on. And it's really hard to build a brand, especially a brand that's based on brand, you know, day one, if you're going national, it's It's like what it'd be like launching into Walmart on day one. It's, you know, you're not building up that credibility from the ground up. I think as well, you know, I mentioned Popchips, we had Katy Perry, Smartwater, we had Jennifer Aniston. You know, I think Liquid Death use influences and talent in a really, in the US, in like an incredibly engaging way, but that doesn't necessarily culturally translate here. And they didn't kind of do the same thing. So I think, With Vitamin Water, we had a playbook. It was how they built the brand in New York. By that time, you know, it had just been bought by Coca-Cola, so it had some more backing, but we still did that. Echoed what they'd done that had worked so well versus just put it everywhere, you know, all at once because you can. And the same thing with Popchips. It's even if you have the means and you have the capital and you have the retailers saying, yes, we'll stock you everywhere. There's so much value in building from the ground up. accelerated and doing it more quickly versus, you know, and building that consumer awareness and getting some traction and building brand hype and buzz. Whereas if you just go into like UK Walmart Tesco day one, it's very different.
[00:19:14] Melissa Traverse: So we were talking a little bit about some of the signals that help you understand whether it's right or not to launch into the UK. How about resources? What should a Brad Avery in terms of funding to make sure it's a successful launch and make sure they have enough gas in the tank to be successful?
[00:19:32] Ruth Fittock: I think what I would say is that, you know, the UK is a, is a valuable market, but you need to invest behind any launch. So if you're seeing it as an opportunity to just get some quick and easy volume, or you've, you're changing pack format and you're like, what if we just put 10 pallets, like 10 containers into the UK and get rid of that stock that way? That's just not. going to work. So you have to see it as a proper launch and do it properly. You can't expect it to be profitable from day one. If only, you know, that would be great, but I think you can get to profitability probably more quickly than you can in the US, I would say, but. You know, that's, that's the journey. And from the beginning, you're going to have to invest. So I think you need to be serious about it and see it as an investment. I think in terms of team, you know, um, obviously that's why we exist to offer that support because putting boots on the ground from day one, isn't always, um, practical or realistic. Um, and, um, you know, often. I think for a lot of US businesses, they're very interested in the UK, but the attention and focus that it takes when they're still growing the brand in the US is a big, understandably is a big reason why they don't do it. So I guess that's why we exist to try and kind of remove that barrier, because it is a big, it is a lot of focus and attention, you know, it's a whole new market. So I think, Yeah, having access to good people on the ground because you're going to need that just from practicalities and to understand like the small differences and nuances between how the markets work, route to market partners, you know, finding the right manufacturing and then yeah, enough capital and what that looks like in terms of a number of dollars, you know, it depends on the brand and the category and the ambition, the aspirations, but I think being kind of serious enough to know that this is something that you want to do properly and it's going to take some investment is a good place to start.
[00:21:35] Melissa Traverse: You just alluded to the fact that it may be less expensive to launch in the UK than it might be in the US. And certainly I'm sure that part of that is just the logistics of shipping and selling a product over so many miles. But are there any other functions that brands could expect to maybe not invest in as much? In the UK, for example, trade spend here just to get your product on shelf, whether it's Free fill or slotting is a huge consideration. Same thing with distributor fees. Same thing with the retailer cuts. What do those numbers look like side by side if we're looking at the United States versus the UK?
[00:22:17] Ruth Fittock: I can tell you some things that are far less expensive, obviously distribution costs, but then even things like meta ads, cost per acquisition, that's cheaper. I think it's less competitive here. People, so salaries are. Sadly for me, lower. So building out a team should be, and that applies to all of your partners probably as well, that the fees are lower across the board. In terms of retailers and trade spend, I don't know the U.S. market in terms of how much, what that would be as a comparison, but it is still, you know, there's a cost of doing business when it comes to retail here. I think they structure it differently and they call it different things, but you know, you will be expected to invest. There is still a cost of doing business with grocery here as, as there is in the U.S.
[00:23:13] Melissa Traverse: I'm also curious, are there ways in which a brand's UK business impacts their US business? Certainly there are plenty of folks who go between New York, LA, London, that kind of thing. Are there any interesting ways that you've seen the brands that you've worked with have their UK launch affect the way they're doing business in the United States?
[00:23:36] Ruth Fittock: I think the UK, rightly or wrongly, has a reputation for having really strong creative talent and just generally good marketing. So some of the brands I've worked on have seen things that we've done in the UK and taken that. And then we ended up with Popchips doing global work, brand work from a UK agency because it just, it was like a more, it was just, it was a good, it was a good pick at the time. So I think it's, I think it's interesting for the two to feed each other. And when I've worked in, in the kind of more teams with that, it's more collaborative and it's looking at what's going on both sides and then, and then, you know, being inspired by it. But I think it's more, I think it's always interesting if you're a brand that's been scaling really fast to then get like a total fresh set of eyes on everything that you've done and bring it come with new ideas with a different perspective from a different market, especially a market that's got a good reputation for creativity and you know marketing execution. So I think it's an interesting place to look at and collaborate on and take ideas from both sides. I hadn't thought of it before like that.
[00:25:03] Melissa Traverse: I remember the first time I went to a Sainsbury's many, many years ago before I was in CPG and just taking so many pictures because the design aesthetic was so fresh and so unlike what I had seen in the United States. And that's something that I certainly think could be inspiring to a brand in the U.S. is taking a look at how packaging is designed. And like you say, how marketing is executed, because it really does feel like there's a fresh approach there.
[00:25:31] Ruth Fittock: Although I have to say, every time I come to the US, I just love doing store visits and I'm exactly the same. And I just spend like two hours in Whole Foods. And so it might be one of those, you know, the grass is greener and you just get fresh, but fresh inspiration is always good, isn't it? So even if it's just having that broader view and like different eyes from a different background on something, which I think is always a good thing to do.
[00:25:54] Melissa Traverse: What are some of the categories that you'd say offer the strongest opportunity right now? You mentioned salty snacks and which are especially challenging. So, you know, it sounds like water, you said, may not be the best thing to jump into in the UK right now. But what are some of the categories that you think do hold some real promise?
[00:26:17] Ruth Fittock: Well, I'd add a couple that I would also avoid. I think anything that's nostalgia based, you've got to think about whether that would work. And what I mean by that is if you look at a brand like Goodall's, who I know are doing, would definitely have passed the target test, doing so well in the US, but that's based on a better for you version of something that doesn't exist here really in the same way. So, you know, like if you're a brand that's done a modern, or a better for you version of like a childhood classic or an American staple, chances are that's just not going to resonate, even if the product's really great. So that's another thing to look at. I'd also say that soft drinks, while they think there is opportunity, is very competitive. It's probably the most competitive, probably the same as in the US, probably the most competitive part of the grocery store. So if you're going to launch into that category, you're going to have to bring something truly great. Um, I think good opportunities, hot sauce. So when I go to the supermarket in the U S there's just so much variety and choice and exciting flavors, and we're just not there yet. So I think there's a massive opportunity. World food. So I think a brand like fly by Jing would just do so well here, like Bashan's. That's what I always stuck up on when I go to the U S just run out.
[00:27:33] SPEAKER_??: Okay.
[00:27:33] Ruth Fittock: someone to bring me some back from New York. But I think that's really going mainstream and UK consumers are starting to look for more exotic and interesting flavors in a way that they haven't before. I think savory snacking is that there hasn't been much innovation since pop chips probably and something like jerky just hasn't really taken off here. And it feels like with all the chat about protein and clean eating and non-UPF you know, ancestral foods coming back, like the time is right. And anything kind of innovating in that space would work. We have one of my favorite trends of recent years is what we call fancy pantry. So when you take, you know, commoditized ingredients that have been elevated. So I know you guys have had Graza in the US, we've had some olive oil brands here. There's an amazing brand called Bold Bean, who I advise, who are jarred beans, so they've really taken like a dusty, boring category and brought in premium and taste and fun into that. Mooty, which I think you guys have there too, like the really premium tinned tomatoes. So anything in that space that's taking something that has been overlooked, commoditized, is boring and bringing some life into it. So we think Tin Fish is going to be the next one. I know you guys got Fish Wife and I love that brand. Anything playing in that space would do well here too. Supplements, although you've got to watch out for claims, which we can talk about in a bit, but I think women's health, huge opportunity, so like brands like O Positive would do really well here. Alternative health, so that kind of natural brands like, I think is it Beekeepers Naturals, you know, that's honey, using honey. And then I'd also say that energy, so having said soft drinks is really competitive, energy is a category again when I look at the U.S. energy market it's just huge and feels a lot more mature, like here it's still sort of monster, Red Bull, you know, very male dominated, caffeine dominated, So probably a brand like Bloom is a bit more female orientated or anything a bit more clean energy. I think that's a really exciting one to watch energy over here. I feel like it's, it's been sort of not been a huge amount of innovation and you're starting to see some of the big brands. try and like bring out, I think is it Monster brought out like a female targeted brand, Flirt, I think it was called.
[00:30:09] Melissa Traverse: Flirt, my goodness.
[00:30:11] Ruth Fittock: I think we can do better.
[00:30:12] Melissa Traverse: That makes me wonder what the UK consumer's appetite for caffeine is. It seems like here in the US, it's very similar to protein where as much as you can cram into a product, you know, try it. Why not? We had a beverage come in through the doors here that had 300 milligrams of caffeine in it. But on the other hand, we're also hearing about how consumers are backing away from caffeine a little bit because of all the side effects. And so brands are using functional ingredients like L-theanine, ashwagandha, rhodiola, things like that. What does energy and the functional beverage market look like in the UK?
[00:30:56] Ruth Fittock: Yeah, I mean the 300 milligrams of caffeine sounds absolutely terrifying. Functional is booming here, it's growing, it's driving a lot of the growth in soft drinks but it's still quite fragmented. So breakout brand here is Trip, you know they've launched into the US now, Flying have done an amazing job. but there's a lot of other innovation going on in I think very similar subcategories to probably what you guys are seeing so gut health you know high in fiber sodas then those other kind of trip-esque drinks so like ashwagandha you know mood calm Um, in terms of energy, like I say, like not a huge amount of innovation, um, that there's, there's a brand, you know, matcha is huge here. So there's sort of matcha based energy drink called perfect Ted. But I still think there's opportunity for something, probably not 300 milligrams of caffeine, but, um, just something that gives you, you know, it gives you a buzz without the jitters and the intensity of that. It's, it seems to be that it's going kind of. there's a there's a energy and then there's like a calm end of the bay and those two things are going to start to grow I think even further.
[00:32:13] Melissa Traverse: So when I hear about a drink that makes you feel something, even if it isn't necessarily a buzz, I immediately think of the non-alc market and how consumers here are moving away from alcohol a little bit. Is that also just a huge trend in the U.K.? Would you say that folks in the U.K. are just as focused on removing alcohol from their daily consumption as they are here in the United States?
[00:32:40] Ruth Fittock: Yeah, I think even more so from brands that I've spoken to who are more familiar with the US market. I think it's, yeah, in massive growth here. It's really exciting. There's like so much innovation. We've got an amazing brand called Three Spirit who have launched in the US, who are like a functional, non-aux, beautiful brand. We've got a couple of other really lovely brands, Mother Root, who are DTC in the US now, and then another lovely brand called Bativo. So there's just, I think the challenge for a US-based non-out brand launching here is you've got some really strong homegrown challenger brands who are emerging and who are growing really well. So yes, the category is booming. And yes, there probably is space for more. But you're not coming into something that's sort of dusty and dry. You're coming into something where there's a lot of exciting innovation and some Yeah, really strong, um, not, you know, not incumbents because they're probably not big enough to be that yet, but just strong brands, really great products. So it's, it's, you know, competitive.
[00:33:48] Melissa Traverse: You mentioned that the UK is a little bit stricter with its regulations and claims than we are in the UK. US. Can you lay out for us what that looks like in the UK and some of the things that surprise US brands when they go to launch in terms of what the restrictions and guidelines are?
[00:34:05] Ruth Fittock: Yeah, this is a big one. And brands need to be really careful because it can wipe out your entire USP occasionally. So claims are really tightly controlled here, and this goes for the EU as well. So even though we're not in the EU anymore, we have similar rules. So even general health claims, like if you wanted to say something supported gut health, which is quite vague, you can't say that. You can't say that. It's treated as a health claim. You have to use very specific language and it is not cool. That's what you are allowed to say. It's like, you wouldn't want to put it on your pack. I won't even say what it is, but you wouldn't want to put it on the pack. It's very scientific. You know, something like vitamin C, for example, if you wanted to say something was good for immunity, you'd have to have set levels of specific things that have clinically proven function. and then it would say something like vitamin c contributes to the normal function of an immune system or something something like that so it's it's quite hard if you're in brand and marketing but at the same time it creates a very level playing field because no one is allowed to say that and that kind of is why uk consumers are quite skeptical of over claims or like over marketing because They don't see that much of it because you're just not allowed to. Yes, some brands still do it and then they get a wrap or, you know, but a lot of the retailers now will ask brands to remove things from their pack because they don't want to be, you know, it's a risk. So, um, that would be the first place to start, um, regulatory claims, getting all of your ingredients checked. We have very different rules. You can, you tend to be stricter. There are certain things that you just can't sell here that you can in the U S they just haven't been approved yet. Very slow. So we have something called. The novel foods, which is a nightmare, to be honest, it's I think it's anything after 1996. So that long ago, if it wasn't used in food then and it is now, it's a novel food and it has to have special approval. So CBD is a novel food and that did get approval. But it's it's so it's if you if you're using cutting edge ingredients. You need to have a look at that and whether you can actually sell them here and even if you can, if you can then make a claim against it. Like I said, it does mean there's a level playing field so it's not a complete disaster, but it's just the first thing to look at and be aware of. Also provenance is very controlled. I don't know if this is still the case in the US, but it used to be. I remember it used to be that you could go and you'd get champagne and it's not actually champagne. It's like sparkling pear juice or something. Here that had not, we're too close to France. I would not fly. Um, and the same with like things like Parmesan. I remember pop chips. We had a Parmesan garlic flavor. And if we were going to launch it in the UK, we'd have to change it to hard cheese and garlic, which just obviously does not have the same thing. Because parmesan comes from very specific place in Italy. So, you know, it's just if you just imagine everything is stricter, that's a good place to start. organic is stricter so you know it's it's harder to get organic certification and the other thing is gmo is standard here so if your brand your main point of difference is that you're non-gmo that is not a usp here so Very much the first place to start is to look at your ingredient deck, look at your claims. Can you sell it here? Sometimes there are small, easy tweaks that you can make. Often that's the case. Um, but that, that's, that's the first place to begin.
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[00:37:59] Melissa Traverse: The novel ingredients is really interesting and I immediately thought of sweeteners. There are so many alternative sweeteners that brands here in the U.S. use. I'm thinking about things like Allulose and Monk Fruit. How does that work? Can't use them.
[00:38:17] Ruth Fittock: So there's, so yeah, there's a two, two that you're, you can't use. Um, but I believe both are going through, right. You know, they're being reviewed under review. So hopefully that will change. Um, it's frustrated to be honest. It is frustrating because you know, they're good natural sweeteners, which would be beneficial to consumers and there's nothing obviously sold. Well, you know, it's just, it's just a slow bureaucratic. It's designed for consumer protection, which I think is a good thing, and you can see that, you can see how it protects consumers from over claims, but it's probably too far the other way.
[00:39:03] Melissa Traverse: And, you know, another question that I had when you were talking about the kinds of claims that brands can use on their packaging, I immediately thought of some of the functional beverages and even supplements that really do use the idea of how it makes you feel. Is there a marketing play versus maybe what the flavor is or what the ingredients are? They really do focus on how they make you feel. Like I think of Trip, for example, How can you communicate to consumers in the UK how something would make you feel if the claim restrictions are so tight? Does that get in the way?
[00:39:40] Ruth Fittock: You have to be very creative as a marketer. I mean, and TRIP do do that here. So, you know, there are but they have ingredients that they can make claims against. So I think you can make a claim against if you have something in your ingredients mix that is clinically proven, then you can make a claim on the whole thing. So there are there are ways around it. I mean, you're not around it because you're you're sticking to the rules. It's just, you have to be clever and, you know, thoughtful. You know, that's the power of brand and marketing, isn't it? You can, you can, you can kind of convey things without saying it and that's what everybody else is doing as well. So it's not, it's not necessarily a disadvantage. It's just, you just need to be a bit more creative with it. But I mean, yeah, Trip are doing really well here and they're obviously communicating their function. Somehow, whether it's in the kind of the brand positioning and the tone and their partnership with calm, you know, so there's It is totally doable, it's just, it's a bit more, you have to be a bit more creative.
[00:40:46] Melissa Traverse: I love a good case study and I think so many people do and whether they are brands that you worked with directly or that you were just watching, can you give us an example of a brand that failed miserably launching from the United States into the UK and then one that did maybe even surprisingly well?
[00:41:06] Ruth Fittock: I feel mean saying failed miserably because that feels quite harsh.
[00:41:10] Melissa Traverse: Maybe struggled with difficulty.
[00:41:15] Ruth Fittock: I think the obvious example is liquid death because that came in and out very recently and we get asked about it a lot and and I think you know we've talked about it a bit but I think it's quite a good case study to learn from in terms of pacing i think that going in i've spoken to other us brands who are doing really well in the us and just assuming that you're doing really well in the us and so you will automatically do really well in the uk is a is a mistake you know it's it's you have all the same rules apply when you launch into a new market product market fit resonates with consumers you know brand tone that's culturally and relevant like it's the same It's all it's all the same in that regard. So you can't kind of momentum is great and it's definitely helpful and it can give you know can open retailer doors, but you know, and your listeners know getting on shelf is not the same thing as selling and consumers picking it up. So yes, you can use that momentum to open retail doors, but you don't want them too soon. So I think that's a really good recent case study. I can't think of anyone else who's kind of come in and out like that in recent years in the same way. I think the other thing would be from that, we mentioned it, but there's a lot more celebrity-backed brands in the US than there are in the UK. If you have the right kind of a celebrity on board who's relevant here it's you know like i say uk consumers are quite cynical so it has to be they have to be really involved it has to be genuine that's going to give you a big boost um and i'd say that uh smart water is an amazing example of that you know they had they managed to take on the French-dominated water category, really understood the on-the-go market, the format, the pricing, they got into, rapidly got into, you know, mainstream distribution, but they had Jen Aniston on board who was, you know, really loved and understood and people really liked her. and that brand's still thriving here. I'd say Vitamin Water, we mentioned it before, but having that incredible playbook from New York of how they built the brand outlet by outlet, you know, yes, it was backed by Coca-Cola, which is obviously, it was a dream to work on, I can tell you, having Coke budget with a kind of challenger brand playbook. what built the brand where's the magic like how do we replicate that you know no matter that that was 10 years ago there's there's some magic there that would be silly to avoid let's just go back to the beginning but but with that backing and that's a really winning combination another thing that i learned from pop chips and from Vitamin Water is You know, I think it's a, everybody knows that humor in the U.S. and the U.K. is quite different. We're a lot drier and more sarcastic, and it doesn't always translate. Both sides, you know, it doesn't always translate. And pop chips, we had some lines, and we'd already run them in a big out-of-home campaign, and then we did some qual testing, and consumers hated them. It's like, they really did. Do you remember any? Yeah, one was like, spare me the guilt, spare me the guilt chip. So like, like guilt trip, but chip. And I remember someone saying, she was like, I just don't feel guilty when I eat a bag of crisps. She was like, I feel guilty if I eat a box of cakes. And I was like, wow. And I guess that comes back to that more kind of moderate, you know, like consumers they're savvy. They know what they're doing. They don't want to be preached out or told what to do. So being told they should feel guilty for eating one of their favorite food crisps did not land. So we had to do some work to keep. the magic, like the Popships had an incredible brown personality, so fun, so disruptive, but like adapt it for the UK market. And it was the same with Vitamin Water, you know, quite edgy, tonally, like how we had to adapt it. And I think the Vitamin Water, some of the lines just got rewritten by like the funniest people in the office. It was like how, you know, we've got this amazing copy, but it's just not, it's not quite landing. So I think the balance is, Like keeping the magic, but making sure, but not being like so blinkered with it, that, you know, being open to talk to the consumer, understand the market and adapt.
[00:45:42] Melissa Traverse: At Nosh Live, we had Khloe Kardashian of Cloud Popcorn, that's her popcorn brand, speak. What do you think? Is the UK ready for Khloe Kardashian and her popcorn brand? Is that a, um, is that something that you think would translate? I would love to work on Khloe Kardashian.
[00:46:02] Ruth Fittock: So if she's listening, call me. No, I think that ticks a lot of boxes. And again, I think that's the key. It's a lot of boxes. It's not just Khloe Kardashian, who totally resonates here and is a big celebrity, but it's protein, which is something that UK consumers are really interested in. And as I mentioned before, like salty snacks, I know that bag snacks haven't seen much innovation, so I think that would be a really good example of a brand that would be primed for a UK launch.
[00:46:36] Melissa Traverse: Chloe, if you're listening, I'd be happy to give you Ruth's information. So call us up. Ruth, it was such a pleasure to chat through this with you. Again, you know, whether or not you're a brand who's thinking about launching into the UK ever, I think this was just such interesting information for anybody to consider as they're building a brand. So Ruth, Thank you so much for joining us from Tomorrow Brands. It was such a pleasure to have you and for everybody else, thank you so much for joining the Non-Based Podcast and we will see you next time.
