[00:00:05] Melissa Traverse: Hello, and thank you for joining. I am Melissa Traverse, Director of Community here at BevNET Anosh, and I am excited to welcome you to the NonBase Podcast, a podcast built to help CPG owners and operators navigate growth challenges and grow more profitable businesses. Be sure to check out nonbase.com, BevNET's platform built for the CPG community, where you can find this episode and so much more. There's a reason an early stage CPG brand would want to start by focusing on a single ingredient. It's clear, it's ownable, and it gives you a strong point of differentiation from day one. But what does it really take to build a brand around that? And how do you make sure it becomes a foundation for growth instead of a ceiling? Today on the Non-Based Podcast, we are talking with two brands who are exploring that as they scale their businesses. Eric Randstad, founder at Farmwell, a ready-to-drink beverage built around the aronia berry, and Shaakira DeLoach from Ginger Snap, bringing a distinct cultural lens to ginger-based beverages. We are also joined by Kelly Criswell from Mudge, a branding and packaging agency for food and beverage brands. Also one of my favorite brand strategists who works closely with early stage brands and help farm well through their rebrands. This will be a really interesting way to look through the lens of a design and branding strategist and, you know, have the brand right here as well. So we're going to get into the question everyone building a brand can benefit from, and that's how do you grow beyond a niche without losing what makes you special and what actually creates real differentiation in a crowded market? Thank you all so much for being here. I am going to have you each introduce yourselves so our audience can get to know you a little bit. Eric, let's start with you. Can you walk us through what FarmWell is, how the Aronia Berry became the center of the brand, and how you think about making it both functional and something that people want to drink every day?
[00:02:07] Kelly Criswell: Yeah, thanks so much for having me today. I really appreciate it. So Farmwell is refreshing antioxidant hydration from the farm. Just real ingredients and no added sugar. All of the drinks are based around the aronia berry. So antioxidant powerhouse berry, three times that of a blueberry and our regenerative organic certified family run farm. So yeah, back in 2017, my dad was in the food business for about 30 years, the organic food business, and didn't want to retire. He grew up farming, detasseling corn in Iowa, and always dreamed of one day owning a farm. When he didn't want to retire, he talked to my mom and kind of shared this dream with her. And after she got over her initial shock, I think, she said yes, but the condition was to do something unique, something different, something that could truly stand apart. something with real benefits and they came across the aronia berry and after like some research and really dove in just like discovered that it was naturally less sweet and an antioxidant powerhouse berry so something that would make a perfect base for an infinitely refreshing my dad says infinitely chuggable drink just something that was really easy to to enjoy that had some functional benefits So they got started and planted 25,000 aronia berry bushes by hand, creating what is today our regenerative organic certified farm. Yeah, and I think that's a bit on farm well, and I think the biggest for us was just trying to create something that was really refreshing. Knowing that the aronia berry was naturally less sweet was a big bonus in creating a different drink that had functional benefits and was really refreshing.
[00:03:51] Melissa Traverse: Where are you located? Where is the farm located?
[00:03:54] Kelly Criswell: Yeah, we're in upstate New York, just outside of Syracuse, which is actually where the aronia berry is native to. So it was a natural place for us to begin our farm.
[00:04:04] Melissa Traverse: That makes perfect sense. Thanks for that. Shakira, let's hear from you and Ginger Snap. How would you describe Ginger Snap and the world you're building around it? And how are you getting it into people's hands?
[00:04:17] Shaakira DeLoach: Ginger Snap is a ginger water beverage. It's non-carbonated. It's made up of five simple ingredients, water, ginger, honey, lemon, and lime. Ginger Snap really focuses on the authentic taste and health benefits of ginger. We want to do something non-carbonated and sweetened naturally. It can be enjoyed chilled, you can warm it up and have it as tea, which is a very common way that people consume ginger. And of course, there's all the wonderful health benefits, antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, immunity boosting. and all of that. So Ginger Snap was a ritual-turned-remedy-turned-business. So I used my own ginger brew to soothe a sore throat that I had in college and then I just became obsessed. So every week I would make my own like gingerbrew batches and share it with friends and family. And in 2020, when we went through what we went through, I was like, you know what, this could be a really good time to share this, you know, with folks and just keep immunity systems boosted. I was working at my brother's vintage store in Philly, and I just kind of use his customers as my guinea pigs. And one thing led to another. So, you know, Ginger Snap is a Philly-based brand. Philly has been super supportive in just testing and scaling and collecting my audience. So right now the product is available in over 10 locations in the Philadelphia area.
[00:05:50] Melissa Traverse: And how are you getting folks to try it? Is it demos? Is it social media? How do you go about that?
[00:05:58] Shaakira DeLoach: It's a little bit of everything. In the beginning, it was very much boots on the ground, and it still kind of is, but just in a different way. So a lot of pop-ups, farmers markets, health events. Now it looks more like a focus kind of strategy. So demos at my locations to just make sure that everyone who comes in the door has tried Ginger Snap or doing an activation at a yoga studio or something like that, kind of really finding my customer, which seems to be health conscious people and people who already love ginger.
[00:06:30] Melissa Traverse: Kelly, you've worked closely with brands at this stage at Mudge, you know, certainly through rebrands like Farmwell and so many others. I would love to ground this conversation and how you think about helping founders avoid getting stuck early. On the one hand, of course, finding your niche and building a core audience is crucial, but how do you do that without limiting yourself?
[00:06:53] Speaker 1: It's such an interesting question that so many kind of new functional brands grapple with. Most founder brands are actually starting out too broad as opposed to too niche. They often think that their product is for everyone. So that's one part of this. The other part is the ingredient as the hero question, right? So consumers don't wake up thinking about ingredients. They wake up thinking about how they want to feel, right? So the ingredient is more of the proof, not the promise, if that makes sense. The brand should always like ladder up to a bigger, consumer needs state. And I think that, especially with ginger and with the aronia berry, there are so many different things that these ingredients can do. It's more about choosing, you know, what to focus on and what to not talk about, right? So otherwise you're stuck talking about the same thing forever and ever. This gives you a little bit more flexibility to expand maybe one day, you know, if you want to expand outside of that ingredient. I'm actually curious, Shakira, about Ginger Snap. And I mean, because ginger does so many things, kind of where you sort of focus.
[00:08:08] Shaakira DeLoach: I mean, that's something I think about every day. So starting off, even though I consumed the beverage hot for most of from college until now, and even I still do, when I decided to go to market, I marketed as everybody to drink cold beverage. And I did that with the intention of I wanted to be in fridges. I wanted people to grab Ginger Snap and go. And I felt that the hot piece, there's just a little bit more steps. Like you have to warm it up. You have to do this. You have to do that. And I wanted to be something that people could kind of feel cool holding and drinking. And I think that that's just easier to do with a cold beverage. It can be at a concert. It can be in a cafe. It can be in a backyard. It can be in a vintage store. So that's where I started, but now I am introducing messaging that's like, you can also warm this up.
[00:09:01] Melissa Traverse: Who is your core audience today? I know you spoke about, I think, a couple of niche groups.
[00:09:07] Shaakira DeLoach: Yeah, so I would say my core audience are people who are already aware of ginger and its health benefits. Ginger can be polarizing, a bit of an acquired taste, especially in the States, where I don't think Americans are as used to consuming ginger as other cultures. So I would say it's people who are health conscious and are consuming ginger because they know it's good for them. And then people who are consuming ginger because they genuinely like the way it tastes.
[00:09:34] Melissa Traverse: And you also spoke about core demographic of consumers who may be using ginger to ease specific ailments like nausea. For example, you mentioned that you have some folks who are undergoing chemotherapy who are using the product to ease some of the side effects of treatments like that.
[00:09:54] Shaakira DeLoach: I had a smaller customer base, so I could be a lot more intimate with folks, I would have people reach out to me like, hey, I'm going through chemotherapy. Can I get a couple of half gallon growlers to ease nausea? And you know, I was more than happy to do that. Or hey, I'm in my second trimester. And like, I'm super nauseous. Like, can I get a couple of half-gallon growlers to help with that. So in the beginning it was definitely super community-based. Now I'm not able to do that as much as I used to, but it's great that folks can see the beverage, grab it if they are feeling nauseous, if they are coming down with a cold, and things like that.
[00:10:31] Melissa Traverse: How does a brand intelligently leverage two core groups like that? So pregnant women and folks who are undergoing something like chemotherapy, what can you do with that, especially if you can't be speaking to those people every single day as your brand scales?
[00:10:51] Speaker 1: It's tough when you're looking at a really kind of micro niche like that and also Again, with a functional beverage, there are so many different audiences that you could be targeting because there are so many different things that your beverage can do. Always the key is identifying that overlap between what your product does the best and consumer wants and needs, what problem you're trying to solve, what problem they need solved. So it's really consumer-centric. But in addition to that, what is underserved? So if you're looking at your product and saying, well, it can really help solve this particular problem for this particular consumer, but there are 12 other brands doing that already. Maybe looking to see, well, you know, maybe there's a slightly different consumer that I can talk to that is not yet being served where I can really compete. Really the goal, especially with a smaller brand is competing, right? Is having the, Essentially, the funds to talk to a smaller audience, that'll go a lot further than just broadening it out. That's why we always say really start niche and then earn your right to expand the wider and wider audience. And that's, again, why I always tell people, you know, pick and choose the claims that you're going to make about your product. Pick something and go with it. I mean, when we worked with FarmWell, we really did focus in on the antioxidants, right? Like that became the story that I can also attest to the chuggableness. It's so chuggable. But refreshing and antioxidant was something that felt like a really good way to pin the brand on something that you know what antioxidants do, and you also know how it's going to feel. At least that was sort of my take on that. I'd totally be interested in Eric's take on that too.
[00:12:52] Kelly Criswell: Working with Kelly and her team, that was one of the things that really stood out to us. It was really helpful with our rebrand. We were trying to cast such a wide net. We were trying to just talk about the aronia berry and just about how it was the hero ingredient. And that was where we were prior to collaborating with Kelly and the team at Mudge. And she did it. It was super helpful in helping us guide and direct both towards like our name as we're continuing to come up with kind of pivoted in our name as well. For us, it was really like we knew that in renaming our company, we had a real opportunity to not be like a location, but to really try to go around a concept. And for us, it was farming. Our previous brand didn't have the word farming at all on the label. And that's such a central component to who we are. We were really missing out on that. So really leaning into, I guess, from people who care about where their ingredients come from, like it is our family-run farm. So for us, instead of trying to cast this really wide net on just, hey, we're a functional beverage, it's really, hey, people who care about where their ingredients come from, people who are not looking for something sweet. And to Kelly's point, like it was so big, like people don't know what an aronia berry tastes like, and that's where we're unique in that regard. So to paint that picture through refreshing, antioxidant and hydration on the front of the can was something that I think Kelly and her team did a phenomenal job at helping paint the picture and set that expectation on what the consumer is going to get when they open up the can.
[00:14:27] Melissa Traverse: And Eric, who are your core audiences right now? And how has that evolved with the rebrand? I can think of so many use cases for a drink that's heavy in antioxidants. I mean, it can be a recovery beverage. I mean, it could be really for anybody. Who are the niche groups that you started out speaking to and selling to directly and has that changed?
[00:14:52] Kelly Criswell: At the beginning, we really leaned into community boosting and talking a little bit about the functional benefits in concept. But we found that it really has resonated a lot with individuals who, like regenerative organic farming has been huge, people that are not looking for something with artificial sweeteners or artificial sugars. So we've really leaned into that in a lot of our marketing efforts. It's gone a really long way, both in attracting attention, because so many people and so many drinks are so sweet. So by really calling it out at the get-go, like, hey, if you're looking for something sweet, that's not us. Keep going. In a good way, like, hey, keep going. That's been really helpful, not only in getting people to notice, but also like when they try it, they're not turned off by the fact that it's not sweet. So like the expectation then matches the experience, which for us, like we were having, I don't want to say, like we're having difficulties where people like, ah, it's not sweet enough. And it's like, wasn't intended to be, and in a good way. So we really are leaning into that and then the functional benefits as a component of it. We have found that it's really increased the traction, traffic, and repeat consumers.
[00:16:09] Melissa Traverse: And how did you address that initial reaction that consumers had that FarmOil wasn't sweet enough? Is that something that you fixed on your packaging?
[00:16:20] Kelly Criswell: We didn't fix it on our packaging. We've run a ton of demos recently and demos are something that when we launched with our previous brand and we launched with Farmwell, So it's a family run company. It's my mom, my dad and myself, and we drove running. I've run like probably a hundred plus demos, just trying to gain information and get some feedback from individuals. Some of it's just repositioning the overall, like how it's framed in a lot of the marketing, a lot of the ways in which ourselves, our demo companies that we're collaborating with, our partners are talking about it in the conversation. So it's setting that expectation out of the gate, if that makes sense, through like all of our. complimentary like marketing materials.
[00:17:01] Melissa Traverse: Kelly, another question that I have is, what does that path from niche to a broader market look like in practice? How do you expand without losing authenticity? I look at Shakira and a brand like Gingisnap, just all of the capital that she's built in her community and with her core audience is so valuable. What does it really look like to expand without losing all of that hard work that you've already put into the brand equity?
[00:17:36] Speaker 1: So much more common for founders to start out too broad than to start out too niche. It's almost always us trying to convince folks that they need to be a little bit more niche in the beginning to get that initial focus and that initial traction. The trick is making sure that your brand can continue to grow. I think the main things, again, are figuring out the problem you're solving and then being able to stretch beyond that. But as you're growing, keeping that authenticity is so important. We all know that Sometimes the message can get diluted. I think that's why brand strategy is so important as sort of a north star for the brand. Because if you know who your brand is, as you grow, it won't matter. As long as you stay true to that voice and that initial mission, why am I doing this? Who are we and who are we for? Once we know that, it doesn't really matter how big you scale, maybe not We definitely see brands scale too fast to keep up. But once you understand your reason to exist, it's much easier to understand how to innovate, where to go, what does your consumer care about and want. And that's how you gain more and more traction and followers and fans of the brand. But again, Really, it's about starting with that niche and then being able to build from there with that North Star of who are we and what problem are we solving. And that doesn't mean you're not going to gather more problems as you grow, more things to solve for more different consumers. And sometimes at that point, you learn that you need to pivot a little bit because you're maybe solving this other problem for this other consumer better. But that's the beauty of watching brands go through this journey because we do learn the market will tell you what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong. So yeah, that was one of my initial thoughts about ginger snaps, right? Because I thought, gosh, how great would that have been when I was pregnant, right? And even now for different things, I mean, ginger is a superfood. And I kept thinking, gosh, wow, how cool is that, that you can kind of grow with the ingredient but not be, you know, tied to the ingredient necessarily, right? I'm definitely curious about how you plan to grow and have you thought about what your messaging will look like as you get a bigger footprint?
[00:20:22] Shaakira DeLoach: I am a bit of a dreamer. I have a North Star vision of Ginger Snap, which looks very much like the drink turning into a platform. I'm really inspired by brands like Red Bull and Liquid Death, who have gone beyond beverage. So they're in athletics, they're in music, they're in dance. And the beverage is then a conduit to cultural experiences. And I would love for Ginger Snap to turn into something like that.
[00:20:55] Speaker 1: I'm curious, do you have any sort of things that you want to hang your hat on in terms of beyond beverage? What goes beyond beverage for you? Just wondering about the kind of storytelling and how you're going to build that platform.
[00:21:12] Shaakira DeLoach: Sure. I would say I'm starting to dabble in little things now. Health and wellness is very obvious because it is a healthy beverage. So, for instance, Philly has this soccer tournament called the Icarus Cup, and I sponsor it. And I have a booth and everything. And there are a couple of soccer teams in the tournament that will wear like a ginga snap jersey. So, same thing with one of my accounts is a yoga studio. So, we're planning kind of like a ginga snap collaboration with one of the yoga instructors where, you know, we do a raffle. does whatever she wants to do, like I kind of leave that up to the instructor. But then afterwards, like everyone gets ginger snap, and there's a raffle and someone wins like a ginger snap gift basket. So these are kind of like little things that I'm like little stepping stones to kind of go towards that platform dream that I have. But I'm definitely open to like ideas and perspectives from like a branding and strategy standpoint, Kelly.
[00:22:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, I asked that because I mean, Philly is such an incredible community and everyone really rallies around each other there. And I thought, gosh, what a cool place to build a brand. There's a lot of brands that, you know, hang their hat on health and wellness, but I don't know any like real kind of authentic storytelling around the roots of the brand being location-based necessarily. So that's why I was asking. I mean, the storytelling is almost the most important part, especially when it comes to a unique ingredient. Anyone can make something with the same ingredient. I mean, Pepsi's got a prebiotic soda, so come on, you know, like anyone can make anything. I hope they don't make a Aronia Berry drink, but I wouldn't put it past them, so it's gotta be about more than that, always. That's why it's so important. I mean, like, Pepsi, if they come out with an Aronia drink, they do not have a vertically integrated family farm, so. Farm well safe. But, you know, that's why I always like to kind of push on what are the things, what are the things that feel most authentic to you about your brand as you build it? And not only what does the consumer care about, because that really matters, but also if you're building a brand platform and you want longevity, it better be something you're really excited about too. You know, that's the beauty of building a business like this, right? You know, it's why I built Mudge the way I did. So you better enjoy it and better be building on something that you feel like has, you know, a good future expansion.
[00:23:59] Melissa Traverse: And Kelly, so Shakira just talked about some of the different audiences that she's working with and tapping to kind of grow the Gingisnap brand. How do you take, let's say, a core group of consumers who are in the yoga community, who are super into your product, and then maybe a sports team that is also really into the product? How do you look at those different groups that are resonating? and come up with a cohesive brand strategy that'll help you figure out what your next packaging iteration is, what your marketing activity should be, even what your retailers should be.
[00:24:40] Speaker 1: So what you're talking about now is almost like reverse engineering a brand strategy, right? In reality, the brand strategy should be dictating who the communities are you're connecting with, because there should be some type of overlap in terms of storytelling that will both serve this group and that group, and the North Star of your brand. Otherwise, why aren't you doing it, right? And I'm sure you have that for Gingisnap, but I think that those are the things to kind of think about when you're talking about, oh, what about this? What about that? Like, it all really should be one strategy.
[00:25:19] Melissa Traverse: Is there a brand strategy that you're working off of now, or is that something that you're evolving as you're seeing where the product resonates?
[00:25:29] Shaakira DeLoach: It's definitely evolving. It's a living and breathing thing. I mean, I'm still boots on the ground. I'm self-distributing. I'm doing the demos. I'm pretty much doing everything. So right now it's about people trying the beverage and getting some of that feedback that Eric mentioned earlier about doing those like hundred demos. I relaunched, so it hasn't even really been six months.
[00:25:51] Speaker 1: And that's an absolutely reasonable place to be, right? Like testing it out and seeing where you get the most traction and then building from there. I think that's, um, you know, I think that's a great way to go too. And I think a lot of brands don't have the. You know, ability to put together that foundation first and they're kind of just going with their gut, which is also, you know, reasonable.
[00:26:17] Melissa Traverse: Kelly, this sounds like such an entry-level question, but how do you put together your brand strategy? How do you answer that question, who am I and who am I for?
[00:26:28] Speaker 1: There's no simple answer for that, which is probably why I have a job. There are two things to start with. talking to the founder and seeing where their heart is. Because as much as we want to serve the consumer and fill a need and have a reason for being in the market, these are founder-led brands. And understanding where their heart is is also a really important piece of the puzzle. So both of those things are where we start. We look at the landscape. It's the most important thing. You have to differentiate. You have to. And there are plenty of functional beverage. There's a million functional beverages. It's so competitive. And there are so many people saying and doing the same things over and over again. Right. So differentiation is key clarity. is key once you've figured out sort of who you're serving. And again, figuring out who you're serving and what problem you're solving is really just about that Venn diagram, that overlap, what we do best. what the consumer needs the most and who's not doing that, right? And so, yeah, once you figure that portion out, it's really about getting that message very, very clear in the shortest amount of time so that the consumer understands it and, you know, connects with it emotionally. And that portion is, you know, almost all about brand. not about product. Liquid Death, great example of that, right? And it's almost all about, you know, connecting intuitively, visually, cleaning it up. not saying a million things on pack, you know, it's decision making. It's especially difficult, I think, when we fall in love with our brand and, but it does this and it does that. And what about this? There are so many great things about it. I think that kind of ruthless decision making and saying, well, it's almost more important to decide what you're not going to say than it is to decide what you are going to say. in the beginning there. And, you know, sometimes that will be learned by some trial and error.
[00:28:48] Kelly Criswell: We ended up going back to Kelly. She was instrumental in getting our pack to where it was. And then we were like, we need to change these, these, these things to like make it clearer, cleaner, make it a little bit more easy to understand and digestible. been really helpful because otherwise it was too busy, too confusing, too many messages. We continue to tweak and refine and make it as simple as possible. And it sounds like you have some amazing events that you're a part of and collaborating with. For us, our first event that we jumped into was event called Farm to Fork Fitness which is all like it's a bike ride and celebrating like different like farms because road bikes go through so many farm communities so it's celebrating the farmers. So for us it was like a natural first thing because it hit so many things that we're doing and it's resonated with the community. And it was just a great first event for us to be a part of. It sounds like you have some amazing events as well in a community that you're involved with. But yeah, I was just finding the right places to dive in that made the most sense with the individuals that we thought it might resonate with most.
[00:29:52] Melissa Traverse: Can you talk a little bit about how Farmwell's brand strategy has evolved and how it evolved with the help of Kelly and the Mudge team?
[00:30:04] Kelly Criswell: Yeah, I'll be super honest. We just went out there at the beginning with our old name, old brand, old design, and we were just like, everyone's going to love this. And that was our strategy. Being new to CPG, that wasn't the strategy that ended up. We were doing OK, but it just didn't resonate with individuals. was saying earlier on the name like we've really leaned into farming and farming well so like we're not just a wellness drink from the farm like we truly make all of our decisions supported by and around farming well and what that means and so we talk a lot about our farm and what regenerative organic certified means so a lot of our brand strategy is it's talking about farming and why it's so important in 2026 what that means today why ingredients that are farmed well and come from a regenerative farm like matter what that does differently. And like people are I think people. think so much about what they're eating, and they're very intentional about the ingredients and the things that are on their table already and the food that they're putting into their bodies, we're trying to bring that extension in to allow people to drink well in conjunction with that. So we're just trying to, from a brand strategy perspective, really lean into where we are unique in that we have a regenerative organic certified family-run farm behind the brand. We're working to showcase that, and that's a big part of our brand strategy. That's the one thing that's pretty different. We're always excited. Like, Callie, if Pepsi comes out with an Aronia, there have been a few new products that have come out with Aronia berries, and we're always super excited because it brings more awareness at this point to FarmWell and the unique identifier that we have. But I think we are the only company that can do what we did. or can do what we're doing right now, like starting a farm in 2017 is a unique story as well. I have so much respect for people who are multi-generational farms, and it is so cool to hear people whose parents and grandparents and great-grandparents were involved, but that's not our story. So we talk about what being new farmers mean and what inspired us to become a part of this and why We feel really passionate about using just real ingredients in our drinks and why that matters. And that resonates with a lot of people. The last part is like more than we would realize the amount of people who've said like, wow, like this is great. I understand everything that's on the ingredient label. So it's, that's the way we've really pivoted our brand strategy is people that resonate with what the product is and the story behind it.
[00:32:47] Melissa Traverse: And Eric, how has that evolved brand strategy changed where you'd like to see FarmWell on shelf? How are you thinking about expanding your distribution?
[00:32:59] Kelly Criswell: We're really leaning into natural and organic spaces. So, and really, really trying to focus there in locations where We think Farmwell will resonate with people. So we've had opportunities to dive into some places that might be more conventional. And to Kelly's point, we'll continue to look for those opportunities in the future. But I think we're really trying to focus on people who are going into store right now. maybe they're more aware of what regenerative farming is walking into that store and that space or more like on the lookout for organic products. So we're trying to go to shelf in the places that that consumer might already be. And it's gone really well.
[00:33:45] Melissa Traverse: What is what is success look like for you and farm well over the next year or so?
[00:33:52] Kelly Criswell: I think continuing to have the opportunity to share our story and continuing to have the opportunity for people to try farm while and yeah, continue to learn more. I think like success will be continuing to expand. We have some really exciting launches coming up, but just continuing to, to be something that people come back to, to be something that it's not only because they feel refreshed to drinking it, but because the story and the concept and the idea and importance of real ingredients and farming well is something that resonates with them. And they can feel a little bit better knowing the entire story behind the drink and where it comes from. And if we can continue to share and spread that, that'll be real success.
[00:34:52] Melissa Traverse: Well, I can't wait to find it on a shelf near me, that's for sure. Shakira, you know, it's been such a pleasure getting to know you and the Gingisnap brand. It has so many benefits for such a wide range of consumers. And there are so many activities that you've mentioned that you have coming up, you know, in the next few months, in the next year or so that'll help really flesh out that brand strategy and, you know, like really help you narrow in on figuring out what's resonating and how you'd like that to take you to the next stage. How do you see the next year's worth of activities? How do you think of the next year or so? How do you think that will help you really narrow in on what you want to focus on to help start fleshing out what that platform's going to be? Like if, you know, Ginger Snap can be sort of a platform for other products, the way that Liquid Death is, the way that Red Bull is. How do you see what you have coming up in the next year as helping you define that?
[00:35:54] Shaakira DeLoach: I feel like the brand is kind of new, even though I've been doing it for five years. I mean, the past five years has just been learning, like literally learning on the job. I had no idea I would be in the beverage industry. And now I feel like I have a product that's really ready. to penetrate the market. So it's a different kind of learning, but it's still learning. I can learn and apply in real time and pivot in real time. So it's really just, again, an exciting time to just learn, pivot, and incorporate strategy and see who resonates with the product, who is falling in love with the product, and how I can further service that customer.
[00:36:39] Melissa Traverse: Kelly, what are your words of advice for founders and for brands that are scaling when it comes to brand strategy, but also scaling your brand strategy as you start to understand who you are and who you are for?
[00:36:56] Speaker 1: Well, I would say never be afraid to pivot because you learn as you go and sometimes you're surprised, right? We can have the best laid out strategy for a brand and then find out there's this different consumer who has fallen in love and they have a whole different feeling about the brand. And that's okay because brand is about the consumer, right? It's about their feeling about your business. It's not about you at all. It's really such a perception-based subjective thing that I think we can make our best guesses and very educated guesses. And we know what works in the market a lot of the time. But it's an art, not a science. And so I think that brands should stay open and ready to learn from their consumers.
[00:37:50] Melissa Traverse: Yeah. Kelly Criswell from Mudge, Eric Ramstad at Farmwell, and Chikyra Deloach at Gingisnap. Thank you so much for joining me in conversation today with the Non-Based Podcast. It was such a pleasure chatting and getting to know you and your brand. So thank you for joining. And for everybody else listening to the Non-Based Podcast, thank you for tuning in and we will see you next time. That concludes another episode of the Nambase podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a review and follow us on your listening platform of choice. You can also watch and listen to past episodes on nambase.com. And don't forget to join our Nambase Slack at slack.BevNET.com for company updates, industry networking, and community discussions. See you next time.
